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[openstack-dev] [nova][nova-docker] Time to retire nova-docker?

0 votes

Hi All,
I know this comes up from time to time, but as the subject says, is it time
to retire nova-docker.

The nova-docker has lagged behind the last 6 months of nova development and no
longer passes simple CI unit tests. There are open patches to at least get the
unit tests to pass[1] but if the current core team no longer has time (no
offence intended) then perhaps we should just archive it.

Thoughts?

Yours Tony.
[1] https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-docker+branch:master+topic:fixes_for_master


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asked Dec 23, 2016 in openstack-dev by Tony_Breeds (19,660 points)   3 6 11
retagged Jan 26, 2017 by admin

16 Responses

0 votes

yep, it's time to pull the plug Tony

fyi, http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-July/098940.html

-- Dims

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Tony Breeds tony@bakeyournoodle.com wrote:
Hi All,
I know this comes up from time to time, but as the subject says, is it time
to retire nova-docker.

The nova-docker has lagged behind the last 6 months of nova development and no
longer passes simple CI unit tests. There are open patches to at least get the
unit tests to pass[1] but if the current core team no longer has time (no
offence intended) then perhaps we should just archive it.

Thoughts?

Yours Tony.
[1] https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-docker+branch:master+topic:fixes_for_master


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Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims


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responded Dec 23, 2016 by Davanum_Srinivas (35,920 points)   2 4 8
0 votes

+1

2016-12-23 10:43 GMT+08:00 Davanum Srinivas davanum@gmail.com:

yep, it's time to pull the plug Tony

fyi, http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-
July/098940.html

-- Dims

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Tony Breeds tony@bakeyournoodle.com
wrote:

Hi All,
I know this comes up from time to time, but as the subject says, is
it time
to retire nova-docker.

The nova-docker has lagged behind the last 6 months of nova development
and no
longer passes simple CI unit tests. There are open patches to at least
get the
unit tests to pass[1] but if the current core team no longer has time (no
offence intended) then perhaps we should just archive it.

Thoughts?

Yours Tony.
[1] https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:
openstack/nova-docker+branch:master+topic:fixesformaster



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responded Dec 23, 2016 by ChangBo_Guo (4,540 points)   3 5
0 votes

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 09:43:34PM -0500, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
yep, it's time to pull the plug Tony

fyi, http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-July/098940.html

Okay I knew it'd come up before. If noone objects befoerm Monday Dec 26th,
I'll send the announcement to openstack-annouce, openstack-dev and
openstck-operators setting the EOL date for March 1. I feel like that is
oodles[1] of warning. and it wont detract from any of the ocata development or
release work.

Yours Tony.

[1] Yes that's a technical term[2]
[2] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/oodles


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responded Dec 23, 2016 by Tony_Breeds (19,660 points)   3 6 11
0 votes

On 12/22/2016 8:26 PM, Tony Breeds wrote:
Hi All,
I know this comes up from time to time, but as the subject says, is it time
to retire nova-docker.

The nova-docker has lagged behind the last 6 months of nova development and no
longer passes simple CI unit tests. There are open patches to at least get the
unit tests to pass[1] but if the current core team no longer has time (no
offence intended) then perhaps we should just archive it.

Thoughts?

Yours Tony.
[1] https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-docker+branch:master+topic:fixes_for_master


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+1 for what it's worth.

People show up in the nova channel in IRC from time to time (maybe once
or twice per year) asking about the state of the driver and I send them
to the nova-docker IRC channel, but also explain it's not really maintained.

I know people are running it and hacking on it outside of the community
repo, which is fine, and if someone doing that wanted to stand up and
say they wanted to own the repo and be the core team I'd be fine with
that too, but so far no one has done that in the last few years. If
you're already maintaining it outside of the community I don't know why
you wouldn't just do that development in the open, and maybe get a free
bug fix at times from another contributor, but I suppose people have
their reasons (secret sauce and all that). So meh.

--

Thanks,

Matt Riedemann


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responded Dec 23, 2016 by Matt_Riedemann (48,320 points)   3 7 21
0 votes

On 12/26/2016 08:23 AM, Esra Celik wrote:
Hi All,

It is very sad to hear nova-docker's retirement. Me and my team (3) are
working for a cloud computing laboratory and we were very keen on
working with nova-docker.
After some research about its current state I saw these mails. Will you
actually propose another equivalent to nova-docker or is it just the
lack of contributors to this project?
Some of the contributors previously advised us the magnum project
instead of nova-docker, however it does not satisfy our needs because of
the additional virtualization layer it needs.
If the main problem is the lack of contributors we may participate in
this project.

There's never any need to ask permission to contribute to a project :)
If nova-docker driver is something you cannot do without, feel free to
contribute to it.

That said, Magnum does seem to be where most of the docker-related
contributions to the compute landscape have moved. So, it's more likely
you will find company in that project and perhaps be able to make more
effective contributions there. Can I ask what is the "extra
virtualization layer" that you are referring to in Magnum?

Best,
-jay


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responded Dec 26, 2016 by Jay_Pipes (59,760 points)   3 10 14
0 votes

Hi All,

It is very sad to hear nova-docker's retirement. Me and my team (3) are working for a cloud computing laboratory and we were very keen on working with nova-docker.
After some research about its current state I saw these mails. Will you actually propose another equivalent to nova-docker or is it just the lack of contributors to this project?
Some of the contributors previously advised us the magnum project instead of nova-docker, however it does not satisfy our needs because of the additional virtualization layer it needs.
If the main problem is the lack of contributors we may participate in this project.

Any o pinions?

ecelik

----- Orijinal Mesaj -----

Kimden: "Matt Riedemann" mriedem@linux.vnet.ibm.com
Kime: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Gönderilenler: 23 Aralık Cuma 2016 6:30:53
Konu: Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][nova-docker] Time to retire nova-docker?

On 12/22/2016 8:26 PM, Tony Breeds wrote:

Hi All,
I know this comes up from time to time, but as the subject says, is it time
to retire nova-docker.

The nova-docker has lagged behind the last 6 months of nova development and
no
longer passes simple CI unit tests. There are open patches to at least get
the
unit tests to pass[1] but if the current core team no longer has time (no
offence intended) then perhaps we should just archive it.

Thoughts?

Yours Tony.
[1]
https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-docker+branch:master+topic:fixes_for_master


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+1 for what it's worth.

People show up in the nova channel in IRC from time to time (maybe once
or twice per year) asking about the state of the driver and I send them
to the nova-docker IRC channel, but also explain it's not really maintained.

I know people are running it and hacking on it outside of the community
repo, which is fine, and if someone doing that wanted to stand up and
say they wanted to own the repo and be the core team I'd be fine with
that too, but so far no one has done that in the last few years. If
you're already maintaining it outside of the community I don't know why
you wouldn't just do that development in the open, and maybe get a free
bug fix at times from another contributor, but I suppose people have
their reasons (secret sauce and all that). So meh.

--

Thanks,

Matt Riedemann


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responded Dec 26, 2016 by Esra_Celik (740 points)   1 1
0 votes

I guess "extra virtualization layer" means Magnum provisions a Container
Orchestration Engines (COE) on top of nova instances. If the nova instances
are virtual machines, there is a "extra virtualization layer".

I think you could consider using Magnum with Ironic driver. If the driver
is Ironic, COEs are deployed to nova instances that are physical machines
provided by Ironic. Zun project [1] could be another option for your use
case. Zun is similar to nova-docker, which enables running containers on
compute hosts. You could find a thoughtful introduction here [2].

[1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun
[2]
http://www.slideshare.net/hongbin034/zun-presentation-openstack-barcelona-summit

Best regards,
Hongbin

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Jay Pipes jaypipes@gmail.com wrote:

On 12/26/2016 08:23 AM, Esra Celik wrote:

Hi All,

It is very sad to hear nova-docker's retirement. Me and my team (3) are
working for a cloud computing laboratory and we were very keen on
working with nova-docker.
After some research about its current state I saw these mails. Will you
actually propose another equivalent to nova-docker or is it just the
lack of contributors to this project?
Some of the contributors previously advised us the magnum project
instead of nova-docker, however it does not satisfy our needs because of
the additional virtualization layer it needs.
If the main problem is the lack of contributors we may participate in
this project.

There's never any need to ask permission to contribute to a project :) If
nova-docker driver is something you cannot do without, feel free to
contribute to it.

That said, Magnum does seem to be where most of the docker-related
contributions to the compute landscape have moved. So, it's more likely you
will find company in that project and perhaps be able to make more
effective contributions there. Can I ask what is the "extra virtualization
layer" that you are referring to in Magnum?

Best,
-jay


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responded Dec 26, 2016 by Hongbin_Lu (1,100 points)   1 3
0 votes

Hi Jay, I was asking because our discussions to contribute to nova-docker project ran across the discussions here to retire the project :)

Hongbin, that is exactly what I meant. Using nova-docker it deploys containers to physical machines, not virtual machines.
Using Ironic driver with Magnum is a solution, but I guess every time creating a cluster with Magnum it will redeploy the operating system for the selected physical machine, which is not necessary.
I will investigate Zun project more, thank you very much. What would you say for its current maturity level?

----- Orijinal Mesaj -----

Kimden: "Hongbin Lu" hongbin034@gmail.com
Kime: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Gönderilenler: 26 Aralık Pazartesi 2016 17:53:00
Konu: Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][nova-docker] Time to retire nova-docker?

I guess "extra virtualization layer" means Magnum provisions a Container Orchestration Engines (COE) on top of nova instances. If the nova instances are virtual machines, there is a "extra virtualization layer".

I think you could consider using Magnum with Ironic driver. If the driver is Ironic, COEs are deployed to nova instances that are physical machines provided by Ironic. Zun project [1] could be another option for your use case. Zun is similar to nova-docker, which enables running containers on compute hosts. You could find a thoughtful introduction here [2].

[1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun
[2] http://www.slideshare.net/hongbin034/zun-presentation-openstack-barcelona-summit

Best regards,
Hongbin

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Jay Pipes < jaypipes@gmail.com > wrote:

On 12/26/2016 08:23 AM, Esra Celik wrote:

Hi All,

It is very sad to hear nova-docker's retirement. Me and my team (3) are
working for a cloud computing laboratory and we were very keen on
working with nova-docker.
After some research about its current state I saw these mails. Will you
actually propose another equivalent to nova-docker or is it just the
lack of contributors to this project?
Some of the contributors previously advised us the magnum project
instead of nova-docker, however it does not satisfy our needs because of
the additional virtualization layer it needs.
If the main problem is the lack of contributors we may participate in
this project.

There's never any need to ask permission to contribute to a project :) If nova-docker driver is something you cannot do without, feel free to contribute to it.

That said, Magnum does seem to be where most of the docker-related contributions to the compute landscape have moved. So, it's more likely you will find company in that project and perhaps be able to make more effective contributions there. Can I ask what is the "extra virtualization layer" that you are referring to in Magnum?

Best,
-jay


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responded Dec 26, 2016 by Esra_Celik (740 points)   1 1
0 votes

Hi,

Zun provides a lifecycle management interface for the containers started in the COE deployed with Magnum. In other words a COE is still needed for Zun. For more information look the Zun wiki.
Internally, to separate the started containers into different sandboxes Zun uses a fork of nova-docker driver which was developed further to fulfill the specific needs of Zun.
To have support for containers without an additional COE to Nova Zun provides no solution.
I’ve added Hongbin to the mail to correct me if I’m wrong about Zun.

Br,
Gerg0

From: Esra Celik [mailto:celik.esra@tubitak.gov.tr]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 7:38 PM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][nova-docker] Time to retire nova-docker?

Hi Jay, I was asking because our discussions to contribute to nova-docker project ran across the discussions here to retire the project :)

Hongbin, that is exactly what I meant. Using nova-docker it deploys containers to physical machines, not virtual machines.
Using Ironic driver with Magnum is a solution, but I guess every time creating a cluster with Magnum it will redeploy the operating system for the selected physical machine, which is not necessary.
I will investigate Zun project more, thank you very much. What would you say for its current maturity level?


Kimden: "Hongbin Lu" hongbin034@gmail.com
Kime: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Gönderilenler: 26 Aralık Pazartesi 2016 17:53:00
Konu: Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][nova-docker] Time to retire nova-docker?

I guess "extra virtualization layer" means Magnum provisions a Container Orchestration Engines (COE) on top of nova instances. If the nova instances are virtual machines, there is a "extra virtualization layer".

I think you could consider using Magnum with Ironic driver. If the driver is Ironic, COEs are deployed to nova instances that are physical machines provided by Ironic. Zun project [1] could be another option for your use case. Zun is similar to nova-docker, which enables running containers on compute hosts. You could find a thoughtful introduction here [2].

[1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun
[2] http://www.slideshare.net/hongbin034/zun-presentation-openstack-barcelona-summit

Best regards,
Hongbin

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Jay Pipes jaypipes@gmail.com wrote:

On 12/26/2016 08:23 AM, Esra Celik wrote:

Hi All,

It is very sad to hear nova-docker's retirement. Me and my team (3) are
working for a cloud computing laboratory and we were very keen on
working with nova-docker.
After some research about its current state I saw these mails. Will you
actually propose another equivalent to nova-docker or is it just the
lack of contributors to this project?
Some of the contributors previously advised us the magnum project
instead of nova-docker, however it does not satisfy our needs because of
the additional virtualization layer it needs.
If the main problem is the lack of contributors we may participate in
this project.
There's never any need to ask permission to contribute to a project :) If nova-docker driver is something you cannot do without, feel free to contribute to it.

That said, Magnum does seem to be where most of the docker-related contributions to the compute landscape have moved. So, it's more likely you will find company in that project and perhaps be able to make more effective contributions there. Can I ask what is the "extra virtualization layer" that you are referring to in Magnum?

Best,
-jay


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responded Dec 27, 2016 by Csatari,_Gergely_(No (680 points)  
0 votes

Esra,

Not sure what's your use case, but I would also take a look at nova LXC
driver. It looks like you are treating your Containers as VMs and for that
I would say the nova lxc driver is a better fit. [1] Docker has specific
requirements on images and networking, which doesn't fit well in the nova
model imo.

There is also a new hypervisor LXD which aims to treat containers as VMs as
well. [2]

[1] http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/support-matrix.html
[2] https://linuxcontainers.org/lxd/introduction/

Regards,
Sam Stoelinga

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 10:38 AM, Esra Celik celik.esra@tubitak.gov.tr
wrote:

Hi Jay, I was asking because our discussions to contribute to nova-docker
project ran across the discussions here to retire the project :)

Hongbin, that is exactly what I meant. Using nova-docker it deploys
containers to physical machines, not virtual machines.
Using Ironic driver with Magnum is a solution, but I guess every time
creating a cluster with Magnum it will redeploy the operating system for
the selected physical machine, which is not necessary.
I will investigate Zun project more, thank you very much. What would you
say for its current maturity level?


*Kimden: *"Hongbin Lu" hongbin034@gmail.com
*Kime: *"OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <
openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
*Gönderilenler: *26 Aralık Pazartesi 2016 17:53:00
*Konu: *Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][nova-docker] Time to retire
nova-docker?

I guess "extra virtualization layer" means Magnum provisions a Container
Orchestration Engines (COE) on top of nova instances. If the nova instances
are virtual machines, there is a "extra virtualization layer".

I think you could consider using Magnum with Ironic driver. If the driver
is Ironic, COEs are deployed to nova instances that are physical machines
provided by Ironic. Zun project [1] could be another option for your use
case. Zun is similar to nova-docker, which enables running containers on
compute hosts. You could find a thoughtful introduction here [2].

[1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun
[2] http://www.slideshare.net/hongbin034/zun-presentation-
openstack-barcelona-summit

Best regards,
Hongbin

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Jay Pipes jaypipes@gmail.com wrote:

On 12/26/2016 08:23 AM, Esra Celik wrote:

Hi All,

It is very sad to hear nova-docker's retirement. Me and my team (3) are
working for a cloud computing laboratory and we were very keen on
working with nova-docker.
After some research about its current state I saw these mails. Will you
actually propose another equivalent to nova-docker or is it just the
lack of contributors to this project?
Some of the contributors previously advised us the magnum project
instead of nova-docker, however it does not satisfy our needs because of
the additional virtualization layer it needs.
If the main problem is the lack of contributors we may participate in
this project.

There's never any need to ask permission to contribute to a project :) If
nova-docker driver is something you cannot do without, feel free to
contribute to it.

That said, Magnum does seem to be where most of the docker-related
contributions to the compute landscape have moved. So, it's more likely you
will find company in that project and perhaps be able to make more
effective contributions there. Can I ask what is the "extra virtualization
layer" that you are referring to in Magnum?

Best,
-jay



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responded Dec 28, 2016 by Sam_Stoelinga (940 points)   1 3
...