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[openstack-dev] [ptg] How to slice the week to minimize conflicts

0 votes

Hi everyone,

For the PTG events we have a number of rooms available for 5 days, of
which we need to make the best usage. We also want to keep it simple and
productive, so we want to minimize room changes (allocating the same
room to the same group for one or more days).

For the first PTG in Atlanta, we split the week into two groups.
Monday-Tuesday for "horizontal" project team meetups (Infra, QA...) and
workgroups (API WG, Goals helprooms...), and Wednesday-Friday for
"vertical" project team meetups (Nova, Swift...). This kinda worked, but
the feedback we received called for more optimizations and reduced
conflicts.

In particular, some projects which have a lot of contributors overlap
(Storlets/Swift, or Manila/Cinder) were all considered "vertical" and
happened at the same time. Also horizontal team members ended up having
issues to attend workgroups, and had nowhere to go for the rest of the
week. Finally, on Monday-Tuesday the rooms that had the most success
were inter-project ones we didn't really anticipate (like the API WG),
while rooms with horizontal project team meetups were a bit
under-attended. While we have a lot of constraints, I think we can
optimize a bit better.

After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should
still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary
horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the
week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in
other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on Wednesday-Friday:

Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms:
Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom,
Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group...

Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms:
Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra...

(NB: in this example infra team members end up being available in a
general support team helpdesk room in the first part of the week, and
having a regular team meetup on the second part of the week)

In summary, Monday-Tuesday would be mostly around themes, while
Wednesday-Friday would be mostly around teams. In addition to that,
teams that /prefer/ to run on Monday-Tuesday to avoid conflicting with
another project meetup (like Manila wanting to avoid conflicting with
Cinder, or Storlets wanting to avoid conflicting with Swift) could
choose to go for Monday-Tuesday instead of Wednesday-Friday.

It's a bit of a long shot (we'd still want to equilibrate both sides in
terms of room usage, so it's likely that the teams that are late to
decide to participate would be pushed on one side or the other), but I
think it's a good incremental change that could solve some of the issues
reported in the Atlanta week slicing, as well as generally make
inter-project coordination simpler.

If we adopt that format, we need to be pretty flexible in terms of what
is a "workgroup": to me, any inter-project work that would like to have
a one-day or two-day room should be able to get some.
Nova-{Cinder,Neutron,Ironic} discussions would for example happen in the
VM & BM working group room, but we can imagine others just like it.

Let me know what you think. Also feel free to propose alternate creative
ways to slice the space and time we'll have. We need to open
registration very soon (June 1st is the current target), and we'd like
to have a rough idea of the program before we do that (so that people
can report which days they will attend more accurately).

--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)


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asked May 18, 2017 in openstack-dev by Thierry_Carrez (57,480 points)   3 8 16

6 Responses

0 votes

Hi Thierry, thanks for raising it. I think it's very important to discuss indeed.

On 05/18/2017 11:27 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
Hi everyone,

For the PTG events we have a number of rooms available for 5 days, of
which we need to make the best usage. We also want to keep it simple and
productive, so we want to minimize room changes (allocating the same
room to the same group for one or more days).

For the first PTG in Atlanta, we split the week into two groups.
Monday-Tuesday for "horizontal" project team meetups (Infra, QA...) and
workgroups (API WG, Goals helprooms...), and Wednesday-Friday for
"vertical" project team meetups (Nova, Swift...). This kinda worked, but
the feedback we received called for more optimizations and reduced
conflicts.

In particular, some projects which have a lot of contributors overlap
(Storlets/Swift, or Manila/Cinder) were all considered "vertical" and
happened at the same time. Also horizontal team members ended up having
issues to attend workgroups, and had nowhere to go for the rest of the
week. Finally, on Monday-Tuesday the rooms that had the most success
were inter-project ones we didn't really anticipate (like the API WG),
while rooms with horizontal project team meetups were a bit
under-attended. While we have a lot of constraints, I think we can
optimize a bit better.

After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should
still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary
horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the
week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in
other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on Wednesday-Friday:

Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms:
Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom,
Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group...

Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms:
Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra...

Two objections here:

  1. In Atlanta moving cross-project things to the first 2 day resulted in a big
    share of people arriving on Tuesday and just skipping it. This is partly because
    of budget, partly because they did not associate themselves with any
    cross-project group. I wonder if we should motivate people to participate in at
    least some of these by moving one of the days to the middle of the week.

  2. Doing TripleO in parallel to other projects was quite unfortunate IMO.
    TripleO is an integration project. I would love TripleO people to come to Ironic
    sessions, and I'd like to attend TripleO sessions myself. It is essentially
    impossible with this suggestions.

(NB: in this example infra team members end up being available in a
general support team helpdesk room in the first part of the week, and
having a regular team meetup on the second part of the week)

In summary, Monday-Tuesday would be mostly around themes, while
Wednesday-Friday would be mostly around teams. In addition to that,
teams that /prefer/ to run on Monday-Tuesday to avoid conflicting with
another project meetup (like Manila wanting to avoid conflicting with
Cinder, or Storlets wanting to avoid conflicting with Swift) could
choose to go for Monday-Tuesday instead of Wednesday-Friday.

It's a bit of a long shot (we'd still want to equilibrate both sides in
terms of room usage, so it's likely that the teams that are late to
decide to participate would be pushed on one side or the other), but I
think it's a good incremental change that could solve some of the issues
reported in the Atlanta week slicing, as well as generally make
inter-project coordination simpler.

If we adopt that format, we need to be pretty flexible in terms of what
is a "workgroup": to me, any inter-project work that would like to have
a one-day or two-day room should be able to get some.
Nova-{Cinder,Neutron,Ironic} discussions would for example happen in the
VM & BM working group room, but we can imagine others just like it.

Big +1 to being flexible in defining work groups. Actually, we had to organize
Ironic-Neutron room anyway on Monday. The only problem, as I note above, is that
many people may opt out of being there on Mon-Tue.

Let me know what you think. Also feel free to propose alternate creative
ways to slice the space and time we'll have. We need to open
registration very soon (June 1st is the current target), and we'd like
to have a rough idea of the program before we do that (so that people
can report which days they will attend more accurately).


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responded May 18, 2017 by Dmitry_Tantsur (18,080 points)   2 4 8
0 votes

Dmitry Tantsur wrote:

[...]
After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should
still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary
horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the
week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in
other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on
Wednesday-Friday:

Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms:
Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom,
Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group...

Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms:
Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra...

Two objections here:

  1. In Atlanta moving cross-project things to the first 2 day resulted in
    a big share of people arriving on Tuesday and just skipping it. This is
    partly because of budget, partly because they did not associate
    themselves with any cross-project group. I wonder if we should motivate
    people to participate in at least some of these by moving one of the
    days to the middle of the week.

That was a feature rather than a bug. Give people option to pick a
smaller timespan, rather than force them to attend all 5 days. I mean,
we totally could have the Nova team meetup on Monday, Thursday and
Friday, but I suspect that would result in some people only attending
the last two days.

  1. Doing TripleO in parallel to other projects was quite unfortunate
    IMO. TripleO is an integration project. I would love TripleO people to
    come to Ironic sessions, and I'd like to attend TripleO sessions myself.
    It is essentially impossible with this suggestions.

That's funny, because they were originally programmed on Mon-Tue (for
the reasons you mention) but they (the TripleO team) explicitly
requested to be moved to Wed-Fri, to be able to attend the inter-project
stuff instead. So I guess the mileage really varies :)

--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)


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responded May 18, 2017 by Thierry_Carrez (57,480 points)   3 8 16
0 votes

On 18 May 2017, at 2:27, Thierry Carrez wrote:

Hi everyone,

For the PTG events we have a number of rooms available for 5 days, of
which we need to make the best usage. We also want to keep it simple and
productive, so we want to minimize room changes (allocating the same
room to the same group for one or more days).

For the first PTG in Atlanta, we split the week into two groups.
Monday-Tuesday for "horizontal" project team meetups (Infra, QA...) and
workgroups (API WG, Goals helprooms...), and Wednesday-Friday for
"vertical" project team meetups (Nova, Swift...). This kinda worked, but
the feedback we received called for more optimizations and reduced
conflicts.

In particular, some projects which have a lot of contributors overlap
(Storlets/Swift, or Manila/Cinder) were all considered "vertical" and
happened at the same time. Also horizontal team members ended up having
issues to attend workgroups, and had nowhere to go for the rest of the
week. Finally, on Monday-Tuesday the rooms that had the most success
were inter-project ones we didn't really anticipate (like the API WG),
while rooms with horizontal project team meetups were a bit
under-attended. While we have a lot of constraints, I think we can
optimize a bit better.

After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should
still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary
horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the
week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in
other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on Wednesday-Friday:

Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms:
Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom,
Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group...

Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms:
Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra...

(NB: in this example infra team members end up being available in a
general support team helpdesk room in the first part of the week, and
having a regular team meetup on the second part of the week)

In summary, Monday-Tuesday would be mostly around themes, while
Wednesday-Friday would be mostly around teams. In addition to that,
teams that /prefer/ to run on Monday-Tuesday to avoid conflicting with
another project meetup (like Manila wanting to avoid conflicting with
Cinder, or Storlets wanting to avoid conflicting with Swift) could
choose to go for Monday-Tuesday instead of Wednesday-Friday.

It's a bit of a long shot (we'd still want to equilibrate both sides in
terms of room usage, so it's likely that the teams that are late to
decide to participate would be pushed on one side or the other), but I
think it's a good incremental change that could solve some of the issues
reported in the Atlanta week slicing, as well as generally make
inter-project coordination simpler.

If we adopt that format, we need to be pretty flexible in terms of what
is a "workgroup": to me, any inter-project work that would like to have
a one-day or two-day room should be able to get some.
Nova-{Cinder,Neutron,Ironic} discussions would for example happen in the
VM & BM working group room, but we can imagine others just like it.

Let me know what you think. Also feel free to propose alternate creative
ways to slice the space and time we'll have. We need to open
registration very soon (June 1st is the current target), and we'd like
to have a rough idea of the program before we do that (so that people
can report which days they will attend more accurately).

--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)


OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
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Sounds like a good idea to me.

--John


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responded May 18, 2017 by John_Dickinson (10,400 points)   2 5 9
0 votes

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:27 AM, Thierry Carrez thierry@openstack.org wrote:
Hi everyone,

For the PTG events we have a number of rooms available for 5 days, of
which we need to make the best usage. We also want to keep it simple and
productive, so we want to minimize room changes (allocating the same
room to the same group for one or more days).

For the first PTG in Atlanta, we split the week into two groups.
Monday-Tuesday for "horizontal" project team meetups (Infra, QA...) and
workgroups (API WG, Goals helprooms...), and Wednesday-Friday for
"vertical" project team meetups (Nova, Swift...). This kinda worked, but
the feedback we received called for more optimizations and reduced
conflicts.

In particular, some projects which have a lot of contributors overlap
(Storlets/Swift, or Manila/Cinder) were all considered "vertical" and
happened at the same time. Also horizontal team members ended up having
issues to attend workgroups, and had nowhere to go for the rest of the
week. Finally, on Monday-Tuesday the rooms that had the most success
were inter-project ones we didn't really anticipate (like the API WG),
while rooms with horizontal project team meetups were a bit
under-attended. While we have a lot of constraints, I think we can
optimize a bit better.

After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should
still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary
horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the
week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in
other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on Wednesday-Friday:

Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms:
Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom,
Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group...

Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms:
Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra...

I like the idea of continuing to have Deployment tools part of
vertical projects room.
Though once it's confirmed, I would like to setup a 2 hours slot where
we meet together and make some cross-deployment-project collaboration.
In Atlanta, we managed to do it on last minute and I found it
extremely useful, let's repeat this but scheduled this time.

(NB: in this example infra team members end up being available in a
general support team helpdesk room in the first part of the week, and
having a regular team meetup on the second part of the week)

In summary, Monday-Tuesday would be mostly around themes, while
Wednesday-Friday would be mostly around teams. In addition to that,
teams that /prefer/ to run on Monday-Tuesday to avoid conflicting with
another project meetup (like Manila wanting to avoid conflicting with
Cinder, or Storlets wanting to avoid conflicting with Swift) could
choose to go for Monday-Tuesday instead of Wednesday-Friday.

It's a bit of a long shot (we'd still want to equilibrate both sides in
terms of room usage, so it's likely that the teams that are late to
decide to participate would be pushed on one side or the other), but I
think it's a good incremental change that could solve some of the issues
reported in the Atlanta week slicing, as well as generally make
inter-project coordination simpler.

If we adopt that format, we need to be pretty flexible in terms of what
is a "workgroup": to me, any inter-project work that would like to have
a one-day or two-day room should be able to get some.
Nova-{Cinder,Neutron,Ironic} discussions would for example happen in the
VM & BM working group room, but we can imagine others just like it.

Let me know what you think. Also feel free to propose alternate creative
ways to slice the space and time we'll have. We need to open
registration very soon (June 1st is the current target), and we'd like
to have a rough idea of the program before we do that (so that people
can report which days they will attend more accurately).

--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)


OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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--
Emilien Macchi


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responded May 19, 2017 by emilien_at_redhat.co (36,940 points)   3 8 13
0 votes

Emilien Macchi wrote:
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:27 AM, Thierry Carrez thierry@openstack.org wrote:

After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should
still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary
horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the
week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in
other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on Wednesday-Friday:

Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms:
Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom,
Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group...

Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms:
Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra...

I like the idea of continuing to have Deployment tools part of
vertical projects room.
Though once it's confirmed, I would like to setup a 2 hours slot where
we meet together and make some cross-deployment-project collaboration.
In Atlanta, we managed to do it on last minute and I found it
extremely useful, let's repeat this but scheduled this time.

Actually if you look above, I added the "Packaging WG" in the
Monday-Tuesday rooms example. You could easily have 1 or 2 days there to
discuss collaboration between packaging projects, before breaking out
for 2 or 3 days with your own project team.

--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)


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responded May 19, 2017 by Thierry_Carrez (57,480 points)   3 8 16
0 votes

I had expected more cinder/nova sessions the first days, so I like that
proposal.

If we are able to minimize project overlap or have alternatives the last 3
days I think we are moving towards a better solution.

Jay
On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:18 AM Thierry Carrez thierry@openstack.org
wrote:

Emilien Macchi wrote:

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:27 AM, Thierry Carrez thierry@openstack.org
wrote:

After giving it some thought, my current thinking is that we should
still split the week in two, but should move away from an arbitrary
horizontal/vertical split. My strawman proposal would be to split the
week between inter-project work (+ teams that rely mostly on liaisons in
other teams) on Monday-Tuesday, and team-specific work on
Wednesday-Friday:

Example of Monday-Tuesday rooms:
Interop WG, Docs, QA, API WG, Packaging WG, Oslo, Goals helproom,
Infra/RelMgt/support teams helpdesk, TC/SWG room, VM&BM Working group...

Example of Wednesday-Thursday or Wednesday-Friday rooms:
Nova, Cinder, Neutron, Swift, TripleO, Kolla, Infra...

I like the idea of continuing to have Deployment tools part of
vertical projects room.
Though once it's confirmed, I would like to setup a 2 hours slot where
we meet together and make some cross-deployment-project collaboration.
In Atlanta, we managed to do it on last minute and I found it
extremely useful, let's repeat this but scheduled this time.

Actually if you look above, I added the "Packaging WG" in the
Monday-Tuesday rooms example. You could easily have 1 or 2 days there to
discuss collaboration between packaging projects, before breaking out
for 2 or 3 days with your own project team.

--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)


OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev


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responded May 23, 2017 by Jay_S._Bryant (5,240 points)   1 2 4
...