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[openstack-dev] Finding people to work on the EC2 API in Nova

0 votes

Hi,

as you might have read on openstack-dev, the Nova EC2 API
implementation is in a pretty sad state. I wont repeat all of those
details here -- you can read the thread on openstack-dev for detail.

However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in Nova
for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
months (at least).

So, does the Foundation have a role here? The Nova team has failed to
find someone to help us resolve these issues. Can the board perhaps
find resources as the representatives of some of the largest
contributors to OpenStack? Could the Foundation employ someone to help
us our here?

I suspect the correct plan is to work on getting the stackforge
replacement finished, and ensuring that it is feature compatible with
the Nova implementation. However, I don't want to preempt the design
process -- there might be other ways forward here.

I feel that a continued discussion which just repeats the last 18
months wont actually fix the situation -- its time to "break out" of
that mode and find other ways to try and get someone working on this
problem.

Thoughts welcome.

Michael

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asked Jan 30, 2015 in openstack-dev by Michael_Still (16,180 points)   3 6 14
retagged Mar 8, 2015 by admin

45 Responses

0 votes

Is there a blue print or some set of bugs tagged in some way to tackle?

-matt

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Michael Still mikal@stillhq.com wrote:

Hi,

as you might have read on openstack-dev, the Nova EC2 API
implementation is in a pretty sad state. I wont repeat all of those
details here -- you can read the thread on openstack-dev for detail.

However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in Nova
for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
months (at least).

So, does the Foundation have a role here? The Nova team has failed to
find someone to help us resolve these issues. Can the board perhaps
find resources as the representatives of some of the largest
contributors to OpenStack? Could the Foundation employ someone to help
us our here?

I suspect the correct plan is to work on getting the stackforge
replacement finished, and ensuring that it is feature compatible with
the Nova implementation. However, I don't want to preempt the design
process -- there might be other ways forward here.

I feel that a continued discussion which just repeats the last 18
months wont actually fix the situation -- its time to "break out" of
that mode and find other ways to try and get someone working on this
problem.

Thoughts welcome.

Michael

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responded Jan 30, 2015 by matt (5,480 points)   1 2 3
0 votes

Michael,

Seems like Wataru from CERN is working on testing EC2.
He is adding Rally scenarios related to EC2:
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147550/

So at least EC2 will have good functional/perf test coverage.

Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 3:11 AM, matt matt@nycresistor.com wrote:

Is there a blue print or some set of bugs tagged in some way to tackle?

-matt

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Michael Still mikal@stillhq.com wrote:

Hi,

as you might have read on openstack-dev, the Nova EC2 API
implementation is in a pretty sad state. I wont repeat all of those
details here -- you can read the thread on openstack-dev for detail.

However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in Nova
for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
months (at least).

So, does the Foundation have a role here? The Nova team has failed to
find someone to help us resolve these issues. Can the board perhaps
find resources as the representatives of some of the largest
contributors to OpenStack? Could the Foundation employ someone to help
us our here?

I suspect the correct plan is to work on getting the stackforge
replacement finished, and ensuring that it is feature compatible with
the Nova implementation. However, I don't want to preempt the design
process -- there might be other ways forward here.

I feel that a continued discussion which just repeats the last 18
months wont actually fix the situation -- its time to "break out" of
that mode and find other ways to try and get someone working on this
problem.

Thoughts welcome.

Michael

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responded Jan 30, 2015 by Boris_Pavlovic (2,540 points)   2 5
0 votes

There is an ec2 bug tag in launchpad. I would link to it except I am
writing this offline. I will fix that later today.

However I think what we've shown is that moving this code out of nova is
the future. I would like to see someone come up with a plan to transition
users to the stackforge project. That seems the best way forward at this
point.

Thanks,
Michael
On 30 Jan 2015 11:11 am, "matt" matt@nycresistor.com wrote:

Is there a blue print or some set of bugs tagged in some way to tackle?

-matt

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Michael Still mikal@stillhq.com wrote:

Hi,

as you might have read on openstack-dev, the Nova EC2 API
implementation is in a pretty sad state. I wont repeat all of those
details here -- you can read the thread on openstack-dev for detail.

However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in Nova
for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
months (at least).

So, does the Foundation have a role here? The Nova team has failed to
find someone to help us resolve these issues. Can the board perhaps
find resources as the representatives of some of the largest
contributors to OpenStack? Could the Foundation employ someone to help
us our here?

I suspect the correct plan is to work on getting the stackforge
replacement finished, and ensuring that it is feature compatible with
the Nova implementation. However, I don't want to preempt the design
process -- there might be other ways forward here.

I feel that a continued discussion which just repeats the last 18
months wont actually fix the situation -- its time to "break out" of
that mode and find other ways to try and get someone working on this
problem.

Thoughts welcome.

Michael

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Rackspace Australia


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responded Jan 30, 2015 by Michael_Still (16,180 points)   3 6 14
0 votes

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:15 PM, Michael Still mikal@stillhq.com wrote:
There is an ec2 bug tag in launchpad. I would link to it except I am writing
this offline. I will fix that later today.

Ok, now that the 40 seater turbo prop has landed, here we go:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=ec2

However I think what we've shown is that moving this code out of nova is the
future. I would like to see someone come up with a plan to transition users
to the stackforge project. That seems the best way forward at this point.

Thanks,
Michael

On 30 Jan 2015 11:11 am, "matt" matt@nycresistor.com wrote:

Is there a blue print or some set of bugs tagged in some way to tackle?

-matt

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Michael Still mikal@stillhq.com wrote:

Hi,

as you might have read on openstack-dev, the Nova EC2 API
implementation is in a pretty sad state. I wont repeat all of those
details here -- you can read the thread on openstack-dev for detail.

However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in Nova
for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
months (at least).

So, does the Foundation have a role here? The Nova team has failed to
find someone to help us resolve these issues. Can the board perhaps
find resources as the representatives of some of the largest
contributors to OpenStack? Could the Foundation employ someone to help
us our here?

I suspect the correct plan is to work on getting the stackforge
replacement finished, and ensuring that it is feature compatible with
the Nova implementation. However, I don't want to preempt the design
process -- there might be other ways forward here.

I feel that a continued discussion which just repeats the last 18
months wont actually fix the situation -- its time to "break out" of
that mode and find other ways to try and get someone working on this
problem.

Thoughts welcome.

Michael

--
Rackspace Australia


Foundation mailing list
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responded Jan 30, 2015 by Michael_Still (16,180 points)   3 6 14
0 votes

On Thu, 2015-01-29 at 16:01 -0800, Michael Still wrote:
However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in Nova
for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
months (at least).

I'd love to get to the root cause before we jump to look for solutions.
The story we hear is that EC2 is important and according to the user
survey there are users that seem to be using OpenStack's EC2 code. Nova
developers point out though that the EC2 code is broken and unusable. So
something is out of whack: either user report are more 'wishes' than
usage or the openstack code is not as bad or someone else is feeding
these users good code (that is not in openstack repositories) or
something else.

I would suggest that we start by reaching out to these users.

Which questions shall we ask them? I'd start from:

  • where did you get the EC2 API: vanilla openstack (version, etc) or via
    a vendor? which vendor?
  • how do you use the EC2 code? Anecdotes are enough I think at this
    point.

Tim and user committee: do you think I or Tom can get the list of
respondents to the user survey who declared to use EC2 so we can ask
them more questions?

If not, we can start by asking on the operators list and blog posts and
wait for someone to come forward.


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responded Jan 30, 2015 by Stefano_Maffulli (11,060 points)   4 8 12
0 votes

Michael,

Our team can take the effort. We're the ones doing the stackforge EC2
API and we can maintain the nova's EC2 in acceptable state for the time
being as well.
If you can give us any permissions and leverage to not just contribute
fixes and tests but also have a say in approval of those (maybe to just
one of us) then it'll be fast. Otherwise it'll happen in due time but
our previous attempts to contribute some fixes for EC2 API in nova took
usually more than half a year to get through.

Best regards
Alex Levine

On 1/30/15 3:01 AM, Michael Still wrote:
Hi,

as you might have read on openstack-dev, the Nova EC2 API
implementation is in a pretty sad state. I wont repeat all of those
details here -- you can read the thread on openstack-dev for detail.

However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in Nova
for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
months (at least).

So, does the Foundation have a role here? The Nova team has failed to
find someone to help us resolve these issues. Can the board perhaps
find resources as the representatives of some of the largest
contributors to OpenStack? Could the Foundation employ someone to help
us our here?

I suspect the correct plan is to work on getting the stackforge
replacement finished, and ensuring that it is feature compatible with
the Nova implementation. However, I don't want to preempt the design
process -- there might be other ways forward here.

I feel that a continued discussion which just repeats the last 18
months wont actually fix the situation -- its time to "break out" of
that mode and find other ways to try and get someone working on this
problem.

Thoughts welcome.

Michael


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responded Jan 30, 2015 by Alexandre_Levine (1,360 points)   2 3
0 votes

+1 cloudscaling has been pretty involved in ec2 support for openstack for a
long while now.

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Alexandre Levine alevine@cloudscaling.com
wrote:

Michael,

Our team can take the effort. We're the ones doing the stackforge EC2 API
and we can maintain the nova's EC2 in acceptable state for the time being
as well.
If you can give us any permissions and leverage to not just contribute
fixes and tests but also have a say in approval of those (maybe to just one
of us) then it'll be fast. Otherwise it'll happen in due time but our
previous attempts to contribute some fixes for EC2 API in nova took usually
more than half a year to get through.

Best regards
Alex Levine

On 1/30/15 3:01 AM, Michael Still wrote:

Hi,

as you might have read on openstack-dev, the Nova EC2 API
implementation is in a pretty sad state. I wont repeat all of those
details here -- you can read the thread on openstack-dev for detail.

However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in Nova
for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
months (at least).

So, does the Foundation have a role here? The Nova team has failed to
find someone to help us resolve these issues. Can the board perhaps
find resources as the representatives of some of the largest
contributors to OpenStack? Could the Foundation employ someone to help
us our here?

I suspect the correct plan is to work on getting the stackforge
replacement finished, and ensuring that it is feature compatible with
the Nova implementation. However, I don't want to preempt the design
process -- there might be other ways forward here.

I feel that a continued discussion which just repeats the last 18
months wont actually fix the situation -- its time to "break out" of
that mode and find other ways to try and get someone working on this
problem.

Thoughts welcome.

Michael


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responded Jan 30, 2015 by matt (5,480 points)   1 2 3
0 votes

Alex,

Many thanks for the constructive approach. I've added an item to the list for the Ops meetup in March to see who would be interested to help.

As discussed on the change, it is likely that there would need to be some additional Nova APIs added to support the full EC2 semantics. Thus, there would need to support from the Nova team to enable these additional functions. Having tables in the EC2 layer which get out of sync with those in the Nova layer would be a significant problem in production.

I think this would merit a good slot in the Vancouver design sessions so we can also discuss documentation, migration, packaging, configuration management, scaling, HA, etc.

Tim

From: matt [mailto:matt@nycresistor.com]
Sent: 30 January 2015 20:44
To: Alexandre Levine
Cc: foundation@lists.openstack.org; OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [OpenStack Foundation] [openstack-dev] Finding people to work on the EC2 API in Nova

+1 cloudscaling has been pretty involved in ec2 support for openstack for a long while now.

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Alexandre Levine alevine@cloudscaling.com wrote:
Michael,

Our team can take the effort. We're the ones doing the stackforge EC2 API and we can maintain the nova's EC2 in acceptable state for the time being as well.
If you can give us any permissions and leverage to not just contribute fixes and tests but also have a say in approval of those (maybe to just one of us) then it'll be fast. Otherwise it'll happen in due time but our previous attempts to contribute some fixes for EC2 API in nova took usually more than half a year to get through.

Best regards
Alex Levine

On 1/30/15 3:01 AM, Michael Still wrote:
Hi,

as you might have read on openstack-dev, the Nova EC2 API
implementation is in a pretty sad state. I wont repeat all of those
details here -- you can read the thread on openstack-dev for detail.

However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in Nova
for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
months (at least).

So, does the Foundation have a role here? The Nova team has failed to
find someone to help us resolve these issues. Can the board perhaps
find resources as the representatives of some of the largest
contributors to OpenStack? Could the Foundation employ someone to help
us our here?

I suspect the correct plan is to work on getting the stackforge
replacement finished, and ensuring that it is feature compatible with
the Nova implementation. However, I don't want to preempt the design
process -- there might be other ways forward here.

I feel that a continued discussion which just repeats the last 18
months wont actually fix the situation -- its time to "break out" of
that mode and find other ways to try and get someone working on this
problem.

Thoughts welcome.

Michael


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responded Jan 30, 2015 by Tim_Bell (16,440 points)   1 8 10
0 votes

Tim,

We sure we can fix it and we know how. The only problem is to somehow
get a hand with reviewing and approvals speed? Is there any remedy for
this? I've asked Michael already above in the thread, but I don't
presume that it's possible even to allow one of us to become core
reviewer for EC2 part of the nova? Or is it?

Best regards,
Alex Levine

On 1/30/15 10:57 PM, Tim Bell wrote:

Alex,

Many thanks for the constructive approach. I've added an item to the
list for the Ops meetup in March to see who would be interested to help.

As discussed on the change, it is likely that there would need to be
some additional Nova APIs added to support the full EC2 semantics.
Thus, there would need to support from the Nova team to enable these
additional functions. Having tables in the EC2 layer which get out of
sync with those in the Nova layer would be a significant problem in
production.

I think this would merit a good slot in the Vancouver design sessions
so we can also discuss documentation, migration, packaging,
configuration management, scaling, HA, etc.

Tim

From:matt [mailto:matt@nycresistor.com]
Sent: 30 January 2015 20:44
To: Alexandre Levine
Cc: foundation@lists.openstack.org; OpenStack Development Mailing
List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [OpenStack Foundation] [openstack-dev] Finding people
to work on the EC2 API in Nova

+1 cloudscaling has been pretty involved in ec2 support for openstack
for a long while now.

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Alexandre Levine
<alevine@cloudscaling.com alevine@cloudscaling.com> wrote:

Michael,

Our team can take the effort. We're the ones doing the stackforge
EC2 API and we can maintain the nova's EC2 in acceptable state for
the time being as well.
If you can give us any permissions and leverage to not just
contribute fixes and tests but also have a say in approval of
those (maybe to just one of us) then it'll be fast. Otherwise
it'll happen in due time but our previous attempts to contribute
some fixes for EC2 API in nova took usually more than half a year
to get through.

Best regards
  Alex Levine

On 1/30/15 3:01 AM, Michael Still wrote:

    Hi,

    as you might have read on openstack-dev, the Nova EC2 API
    implementation is in a pretty sad state. I wont repeat all of
    those
    details here -- you can read the thread on openstack-dev for
    detail.

    However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in
    Nova
    for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
    months (at least).

    So, does the Foundation have a role here? The Nova team has
    failed to
    find someone to help us resolve these issues. Can the board
    perhaps
    find resources as the representatives of some of the largest
    contributors to OpenStack? Could the Foundation employ someone
    to help
    us our here?

    I suspect the correct plan is to work on getting the stackforge
    replacement finished, and ensuring that it is feature
    compatible with
    the Nova implementation. However, I don't want to preempt the
    design
    process -- there might be other ways forward here.

    I feel that a continued discussion which just repeats the last 18
    months wont actually fix the situation -- its time to "break
    out" of
    that mode and find other ways to try and get someone working
    on this
    problem.

    Thoughts welcome.

    Michael

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responded Jan 30, 2015 by Alexandre_Levine (1,360 points)   2 3
0 votes

As you know we have been driving forward on the stack forge project and
it¹s our intention to continue to support it over time, plus reinvigorate
the GCE APIs when that makes sense. So we¹re supportive of deprecating
from Nova to focus on EC2 API in Nova. I also think it¹s good for these
APIs to be able to iterate outside of the standard release cycle.

--Randy

VP, Technology, EMC Corporation
Formerly Founder & CEO, Cloudscaling (now a part of EMC)
+1 (415) 787-2253 [google voice]
TWITTER: twitter.com/randybias
LINKEDIN: linkedin.com/in/randybias
ASSISTANT: ren.ly@emc.com

On 1/29/15, 4:01 PM, "Michael Still" mikal@stillhq.com wrote:

Hi,

as you might have read on openstack-dev, the Nova EC2 API
implementation is in a pretty sad state. I wont repeat all of those
details here -- you can read the thread on openstack-dev for detail.

However, we got here because no one is maintaining the code in Nova
for the EC2 API. This is despite repeated calls over the last 18
months (at least).

So, does the Foundation have a role here? The Nova team has failed to
find someone to help us resolve these issues. Can the board perhaps
find resources as the representatives of some of the largest
contributors to OpenStack? Could the Foundation employ someone to help
us our here?

I suspect the correct plan is to work on getting the stackforge
replacement finished, and ensuring that it is feature compatible with
the Nova implementation. However, I don't want to preempt the design
process -- there might be other ways forward here.

I feel that a continued discussion which just repeats the last 18
months wont actually fix the situation -- its time to "break out" of
that mode and find other ways to try and get someone working on this
problem.

Thoughts welcome.

Michael

--
Rackspace Australia


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responded Jan 30, 2015 by Bias,_Randy (340 points)   1
...