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[OpenStack Foundation] [Diversity] re: Diversity Workgroup APAC 2015-08-27

0 votes

In this meeting, rolandchan requested feedback on a survey. I've not
been following along so if I'm talking nonsense, please disregard.

Survey draft: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19P117V1OxZgRuPP6S2nwNCH6cC6v0jwwAaFswwLNqTc

  • The survey omits many aspects of diversity, EG religion,
    ethnicity, disability. Maybe I'm only seeing a small piece of the
    final survey? IMO a single large survey will be more successful than
    many small ones.
  • Q2 excludes asexuals. GSRM (gender, sexual or romantic minority) is a
    more inclusive term than LGBT, I suggest rewriting in those terms.

Alexis (lxsli)
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asked Sep 1, 2015 in openstack-foundation by lxsli_at_hpe.com (1,640 points)   2
retagged Feb 4, 2016 by admin

85 Responses

0 votes

That's the doc. Thanks for the input Alexis.

I was undecided on whether survey fatigue would set in with a long survey.
I'm happy to hear other opinions on optimal survey length. With extra
length I would also like to include questions on the importance of
diversity to respondents and perhaps to even ask them rate the diversity
related programs to date.

On the the second point, I was unaware of this term. Thanks for pointing it
out. I'll go so some reading and get back to you.

Roland

On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 7:28 PM Alexis Lee lxsli@hpe.com wrote:

In this meeting, rolandchan requested feedback on a survey. I've not
been following along so if I'm talking nonsense, please disregard.

Survey draft:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=19P117V1OxZgRuPP6S2nwNCH6cC6v0jwwAaFswwLNqTc

  • The survey omits many aspects of diversity, EG religion,
    ethnicity, disability. Maybe I'm only seeing a small piece of the
    final survey? IMO a single large survey will be more successful than
    many small ones.
  • Q2 excludes asexuals. GSRM (gender, sexual or romantic minority) is a
    more inclusive term than LGBT, I suggest rewriting in those terms.

Alexis (lxsli)
--
Nova developer, Hewlett-Packard Limited.
Registered Office: Cain Road, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1HN.
Registered Number: 00690597 England
VAT number: GB 314 1496 79


Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation


Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation
responded Sep 1, 2015 by Roland_Chan (2,780 points)   1 2
0 votes

Roland Chan said on Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 09:47:33AM +0000:

I was undecided on whether survey fatigue would set in with a long survey.
I'm happy to hear other opinions on optimal survey length.

To be clear there's definitely a maximum! For myself, about 15-20
questions is OK, more than that and I may balk. I'd also like to hear
some other opinions on this.

On the the second point, I was unaware of this term. Thanks for pointing it
out. I'll go so some reading and get back to you.

Great thank you.

Alexis (lxsli)
--
Nova developer, Hewlett-Packard Limited.
Registered Office: Cain Road, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1HN.
Registered Number: 00690597 England
VAT number: GB 314 1496 79


Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation
responded Sep 1, 2015 by lxsli_at_hpe.com (1,640 points)   2
0 votes

To be clear, while I am very interested in all aspects of diversity, I am
not active in the field of sexuality diversity. As such I may not be across
current language usage.

As per my previous email GSRM is a new term to me and I don't see a lot of
it in what might be broadly called mainstream media. I am concerned about
solely using GSRM as it may require long explanatory notes, or otherwise
confuse. Perhaps this is moot point within these communities.

What do people think about a form of words that includes, essentially "GSRM
or LGBT" with expansion of both acronyms? Obviously this increases my
comprehension/recognition but then my comprehension is not of primary
concern to this survey. My aim to to ensure clarity for the largest number
of people and minimising exclusion.

Comments/brickbats always welcome.

Roland

On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 7:59 PM Alexis Lee lxsli@hpe.com wrote:

Roland Chan said on Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 09:47:33AM +0000:

I was undecided on whether survey fatigue would set in with a long
survey.
I'm happy to hear other opinions on optimal survey length.

To be clear there's definitely a maximum! For myself, about 15-20
questions is OK, more than that and I may balk. I'd also like to hear
some other opinions on this.

On the the second point, I was unaware of this term. Thanks for pointing
it
out. I'll go so some reading and get back to you.

Great thank you.

Alexis (lxsli)
--
Nova developer, Hewlett-Packard Limited.
Registered Office: Cain Road, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1HN.
Registered Number: 00690597 England
VAT number: GB 314 1496 79


Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation
responded Sep 1, 2015 by Roland_Chan (2,780 points)   1 2
0 votes

Roland Chan said on Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 01:34:03PM +0000:

To be clear, while I am very interested in all aspects of diversity, I am
not active in the field of sexuality diversity. As such I may not be across
current language usage.

Same, I learned what I know from the internet.

As per my previous email GSRM is a new term to me and I don't see a lot of
it in what might be broadly called mainstream media. I am concerned about
solely using GSRM as it may require long explanatory notes, or otherwise
confuse. Perhaps this is moot point within these communities.

What do people think about a form of words that includes, essentially "GSRM
or LGBT" with expansion of both acronyms? Obviously this increases my
comprehension/recognition but then my comprehension is not of primary
concern to this survey. My aim to to ensure clarity for the largest number
of people and minimising exclusion.

Mainstream media is not where I'd reach. Of primary importance is using
the terms by which people self-identify, as you allude in your next
para. Unfortunately (from what I've read on the internet) even in the
community there's not agreement yet, so we need to make a judgment.

Here's an article discussing the problem:
https://theglobalecho.wordpress.com/2014/02/03/the-case-for-gsrm-over-lgbt/

I'd avoid the actual acronym entirely as it's not widely known. But
expanded, it becomes simple:

"Do you identify as a gender minority?"
"Do you identify as a sexual or romantic minority?"

Adding "or LGBT" seems redundant and to dilute the inclusiveness.

Alexis (lxsli)
--
Nova developer, Hewlett-Packard Limited.
Registered Office: Cain Road, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1HN.
Registered Number: 00690597 England
VAT number: GB 314 1496 79


Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation
responded Sep 1, 2015 by lxsli_at_hpe.com (1,640 points)   2
0 votes

I saw 4 questions only. It is really a short survey. I think at least it is OK to control the survey to be in one page, without any scrolling down.
Maybe 10 – 20 questions, e.g. adding age.

Best Regards.
--
Shane
From: Roland Chan [mailto:roland@aptira.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 5:48 PM
To: Alexis Lee; foundation@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [OpenStack Foundation] [Diversity] re: Diversity Workgroup APAC 2015-08-27

That's the doc. Thanks for the input Alexis.

I was undecided on whether survey fatigue would set in with a long survey. I'm happy to hear other opinions on optimal survey length. With extra length I would also like to include questions on the importance of diversity to respondents and perhaps to even ask them rate the diversity related programs to date.

On the the second point, I was unaware of this term. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll go so some reading and get back to you.

Roland

On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 7:28 PM Alexis Lee lxsli@hpe.com wrote:
In this meeting, rolandchan requested feedback on a survey. I've not
been following along so if I'm talking nonsense, please disregard.

Survey draft: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19P117V1OxZgRuPP6S2nwNCH6cC6v0jwwAaFswwLNqTc

  • The survey omits many aspects of diversity, EG religion,
    ethnicity, disability. Maybe I'm only seeing a small piece of the
    final survey? IMO a single large survey will be more successful than
    many small ones.
  • Q2 excludes asexuals. GSRM (gender, sexual or romantic minority) is a
    more inclusive term than LGBT, I suggest rewriting in those terms.

Alexis (lxsli)
--
Nova developer, Hewlett-Packard Limited.
Registered Office: Cain Road, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1HN.
Registered Number: 00690597 England
VAT number: GB 314 1496 79


Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation

Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation
responded Sep 1, 2015 by Wang,_Shane (1,720 points)   1 3
0 votes

I had sent this to a smaller section of the group but it deals with how the University of California asks the gender question and also includes sexual orientation.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/28/university-california-offers-six-choices-for-gender-identity/

We may be able to get a hold of their survey as a possible guideline.

Amy Marrich (spotz)
From: Roland Chan roland@aptira.com
Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 4:47 AM
To: Alexis Lee lxsli@hpe.com, "foundation@lists.openstack.org" foundation@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [OpenStack Foundation] [Diversity] re: Diversity Workgroup APAC 2015-08-27

That's the doc. Thanks for the input Alexis.

I was undecided on whether survey fatigue would set in with a long survey. I'm happy to hear other opinions on optimal survey length. With extra length I would also like to include questions on the importance of diversity to respondents and perhaps to even ask them rate the diversity related programs to date.

On the the second point, I was unaware of this term. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll go so some reading and get back to you.

Roland

On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 7:28 PM Alexis Lee lxsli@hpe.com wrote:
In this meeting, rolandchan requested feedback on a survey. I've not
been following along so if I'm talking nonsense, please disregard.

Survey draft: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19P117V1OxZgRuPP6S2nwNCH6cC6v0jwwAaFswwLNqTc

  • The survey omits many aspects of diversity, EG religion,
    ethnicity, disability. Maybe I'm only seeing a small piece of the
    final survey? IMO a single large survey will be more successful than
    many small ones.
  • Q2 excludes asexuals. GSRM (gender, sexual or romantic minority) is a
    more inclusive term than LGBT, I suggest rewriting in those terms.

Alexis (lxsli)
--
Nova developer, Hewlett-Packard Limited.
Registered Office: Cain Road, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1HN.
Registered Number: 00690597 England
VAT number: GB 314 1496 79


Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation

Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation
responded Sep 1, 2015 by Amy_Marrich (340 points)  
0 votes

On 09/01/2015 08:53 AM, Amy Marrich wrote:
I had sent this to a smaller section of the group but it deals with how
the University of California asks the gender question and also includes
sexual orientation.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/28/university-california-offers-six-choices-for-gender-identity/

We may be able to get a hold of their survey as a possible guideline.

At the beginning of 2014[1], the OpenStack Foundations started asking
its members to specify their gender. The intention was to start
measuring that aspect of diversity in order to improve it. Since the
gender issue is extremely new to society, there are lots of acronyms and
constant fluxes of differences among the non-binary genders. We decided,
after long debate and research, to use an open text form to specify
gender because that's the most flexible one. Any other system we found,
including the one from UC above, had criticism because the debate even
among scholars is not set.

You may have noticed that the form to subscribe to the Summit for
example asks gender offering 4 options:

  • male
  • female
  • let me tell you
    > open form

(I noticed now it's missing the very valuable 4th option "prefer not to
say", which I think may be useful to have even if the response is itself
optional)

Has anybody looked at the historic data about gender from the members
database?

/stef

[1] A summary of that conversation is on my blog
http://maffulli.net/2014/02/05/tracking-gender-diversity-in-the-openstack-developer-community/


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responded Sep 1, 2015 by Stefano_Maffulli (11,060 points)   4 8 12
0 votes

+1

On September 1, 2015 12:38:07 PM EDT, Stefano Maffulli stefano@openstack.org wrote:
On 09/01/2015 08:53 AM, Amy Marrich wrote:

I had sent this to a smaller section of the group but it deals with
how
the University of California asks the gender question and also
includes
sexual orientation.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/28/university-california-offers-six-choices-for-gender-identity/

We may be able to get a hold of their survey as a possible guideline.

At the beginning of 2014[1], the OpenStack Foundations started asking
its members to specify their gender. The intention was to start
measuring that aspect of diversity in order to improve it. Since the
gender issue is extremely new to society, there are lots of acronyms
and
constant fluxes of differences among the non-binary genders. We
decided,
after long debate and research, to use an open text form to specify
gender because that's the most flexible one. Any other system we found,
including the one from UC above, had criticism because the debate even
among scholars is not set.

You may have noticed that the form to subscribe to the Summit for
example asks gender offering 4 options:

  • male
  • female
  • let me tell you
    > open form

(I noticed now it's missing the very valuable 4th option "prefer not to
say", which I think may be useful to have even if the response is
itself
optional)

Has anybody looked at the historic data about gender from the members
database?

/stef

[1] A summary of that conversation is on my blog
http://maffulli.net/2014/02/05/tracking-gender-diversity-in-the-openstack-developer-community/


Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity._______________________________________________
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responded Sep 1, 2015 by matt (5,480 points)   1 2 3
0 votes

The existing data is being handled by another sub-team on the Diversity WG.
I'm certainly keen to see it, but getting it isn't my focus.

Regarding the opt-out capability, my intent is that every question is
optional. The survey itself will require a one page intro where we address
this and other privacy related issues.

Roland

On Wed, 2 Sep 2015 at 02:39 Stefano Maffulli stefano@openstack.org wrote:

On 09/01/2015 08:53 AM, Amy Marrich wrote:

I had sent this to a smaller section of the group but it deals with how
the University of California asks the gender question and also includes
sexual orientation.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/28/university-california-offers-six-choices-for-gender-identity/

We may be able to get a hold of their survey as a possible guideline.

At the beginning of 2014[1], the OpenStack Foundations started asking
its members to specify their gender. The intention was to start
measuring that aspect of diversity in order to improve it. Since the
gender issue is extremely new to society, there are lots of acronyms and
constant fluxes of differences among the non-binary genders. We decided,
after long debate and research, to use an open text form to specify
gender because that's the most flexible one. Any other system we found,
including the one from UC above, had criticism because the debate even
among scholars is not set.

You may have noticed that the form to subscribe to the Summit for
example asks gender offering 4 options:

  • male
  • female
  • let me tell you
    > open form

(I noticed now it's missing the very valuable 4th option "prefer not to
say", which I think may be useful to have even if the response is itself
optional)

Has anybody looked at the historic data about gender from the members
database?

/stef

[1] A summary of that conversation is on my blog

http://maffulli.net/2014/02/05/tracking-gender-diversity-in-the-openstack-developer-community/


Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation


Foundation mailing list
Foundation@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/foundation
responded Sep 2, 2015 by Roland_Chan (2,780 points)   1 2
0 votes

On Wed, 2 Sep 2015 at 01:04 Alexis Lee lxsli@hpe.com wrote:

I'd avoid the actual acronym entirely as it's not widely known. But
expanded, it becomes simple:

"Do you identify as a gender minority?"
"Do you identify as a sexual or romantic minority?"

Adding "or LGBT" seems redundant and to dilute the inclusiveness.

My only issue with the questions above is that I would need to google in
order to understand what gender minority means, and similarly romantic
minority. The questions are great once the respondent is clued up on the
what the terms are.

I'll see if I can come up additional text that doesn't get too bulky.

Roland


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responded Sep 2, 2015 by Roland_Chan (2,780 points)   1 2
...