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[openstack-dev] [Murano] py26 support in python-muranoclient

0 votes

Hello,

I am wondering if there is any near-term plan for removing the py26
support from the client project (python-muranoclient).
For the tosca support blueprint python-muranoclient will become dependent
on tosca-parser project and expect tosca-parser to support py26 (it
currently does not support py26).

So the options are:
1. support py26 in tosca-parser
2. wait until py26 support is phased out in python-muranoclient (only if
it's happening soon)

Thanks.


Vahid Hashemian, Ph.D.
Advisory Software Engineer, IBM Cloud


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asked Oct 8, 2015 in openstack-dev by Vahid_S_Hashemian (1,460 points)   2 4

11 Responses

0 votes

Hi Vahid,

unfortunately we don't plan to remove support for py26 from the
python-muranoclient, most of the python-client support py26
in order to work out of the box on different OS including CentOS 6.5
and so on.

So the options are:
1. support py26 in tosca-parser

Support for py26 is pretty easy to implement, there are only few
things which are not available in py26 and available in py27. In our
case it was few places where we used {1, 2, 3} instead of set([1, 2,
3]).

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Vahid S Hashemian
vahidhashemian@us.ibm.com wrote:
Hello,

I am wondering if there is any near-term plan for removing the py26 support
from the client project (python-muranoclient).
For the tosca support blueprint python-muranoclient will become dependent on
tosca-parser project and expect tosca-parser to support py26 (it currently
does not support py26).

So the options are:
1. support py26 in tosca-parser
2. wait until py26 support is phased out in python-muranoclient (only if
it's happening soon)

Thanks.


Vahid Hashemian, Ph.D.
Advisory Software Engineer, IBM Cloud


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--
Serg Melikyan, Senior Software Engineer at Mirantis, Inc.
http://mirantis.com | smelikyan@mirantis.com

+7 (495) 640-4904, 0261
+7 (903) 156-0836


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responded Oct 9, 2015 by Serg_Melikyan (4,140 points)   4 5
0 votes

On 2015-10-09 12:22:12 +0300 (+0300), Serg Melikyan wrote:
unfortunately we don't plan to remove support for py26 from the
python-muranoclient, most of the python-client support py26
in order to work out of the box on different OS including CentOS 6.5
and so on.
[...]

Bear in mind that we were only keeping 2.6 testing around to support
the stable/juno branch, and intend to begin removing support for
running Python 2.6 tests from our CI when that branch reaches EOL in
a few weeks. The end-of-2.6 discussions we had now many summits ago
involved representatives from several Enterprise/LTS Linux
distributions who agreed that supporting it in Kilo and beyond would
not be necessary.
--
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responded Oct 9, 2015 by Jeremy_Stanley (56,700 points)   3 5 7
0 votes

Serg, Jeremy,

Thank you for your response, so the issue I ran into with my patch is the
gate job failing on python26.
You can see it here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/232271/

Serg suggested that we add 2.6 support to tosca-parser, which is fine with
us.
But I got a bit confused after reading Jeremy's response.
It seems to me that the support will be going away, but there is no
timeline (and therefore no near-term plan?)
So, I'm hoping Jeremy can advise whether he also recommends the same
thing, or not.

Thank you both again.

Regards,


Vahid Hashemian, Ph.D.
Advisory Software Engineer, IBM Cloud


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responded Oct 9, 2015 by Vahid_S_Hashemian (1,460 points)   2 4
0 votes

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015, at 10:32 AM, Vahid S Hashemian wrote:
Serg, Jeremy,

Thank you for your response, so the issue I ran into with my patch is the
gate job failing on python26.
You can see it here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/232271/

Serg suggested that we add 2.6 support to tosca-parser, which is fine
with
us.
But I got a bit confused after reading Jeremy's response.
It seems to me that the support will be going away, but there is no
timeline (and therefore no near-term plan?)
So, I'm hoping Jeremy can advise whether he also recommends the same
thing, or not.
There is a timeline (though admittedly hard to find) at
https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-relmgt-stable-branch which says
Juno support would run through the end of November. Since Juno is the
last release to support python2.6 we will remove python2.6 support from
the test infrastructure at that time as well.

I personally probably wouldn't bother with extra work to support
python2.6, but that all depends on how much work it is and whether or
not you find value in it. Ultimately it is up to you, just know that the
Infrastructure team will stop hosting testing for python2.6 when Juno is
EOLed.

Hope this helps,
Clark


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responded Oct 9, 2015 by Clark_Boylan (8,800 points)   1 2 4
0 votes

Thank Clark. That really helps.
We'll consider this timeline and make a decision on which way to go
bearing in mind that waiting for 2.6 phase out would mean a 2 months delay
in getting this blueprint implemented.

Regards,


Vahid Hashemian, Ph.D.
Advisory Software Engineer, IBM Cloud


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responded Oct 9, 2015 by Vahid_S_Hashemian (1,460 points)   2 4
0 votes

From: Clark Boylan cboylan@sapwetik.org
To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Date: 10/09/2015 02:00 PM
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Murano] py26 support in
python-muranoclient

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015, at 10:32 AM, Vahid S Hashemian wrote:

Serg, Jeremy,

Thank you for your response, so the issue I ran into with my patch is
the
gate job failing on python26.
You can see it here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/232271/

Serg suggested that we add 2.6 support to tosca-parser, which is fine
with
us.
But I got a bit confused after reading Jeremy's response.
It seems to me that the support will be going away, but there is no
timeline (and therefore no near-term plan?)
So, I'm hoping Jeremy can advise whether he also recommends the same
thing, or not.
There is a timeline (though admittedly hard to find) at
https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-relmgt-stable-branch which says
Juno support would run through the end of November. Since Juno is the
last release to support python2.6 we will remove python2.6 support from
the test infrastructure at that time as well.

I personally probably wouldn't bother with extra work to support
python2.6, but that all depends on how much work it is and whether or
not you find value in it. Ultimately it is up to you, just know that the
Infrastructure team will stop hosting testing for python2.6 when Juno is
EOLed.

Hope this helps,
Clark

Thanks Clark and Jeremy! This is very helpful.

Serg, now knowing that CI testing is not going to continue in few weeks
and many other projects has dropped python 2.6 support or getting there,
if Murano decides the same that would be great. If Murano team decide to
continue the 2.6 support, we will need to enable support in tosca-parser
as well. As you mentioned it may not be a lot of work for us and we are
totally fine in making changes, but without automated tests it can be
challenging in future.

Thanks!
Sahdev Zala


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responded Oct 9, 2015 by Sahdev_P_Zala (980 points)   2
0 votes

There is a need to distinguish between server side py26 support which is
generally under the control of the service provider and py26 support on the
client side. For a service provider to push all of their hypervisors and
service machines to RHEL 7 is under their control but requiring all of their
users to do the same is much more difficult.

Thus, I feel there should be different decisions and communication w.r.t.
the time scales for deprecation of py26 on clients compared to the server
side. A project may choose to make them together but equally some may choose
to delay the mandatory client migration to py27 while requiring the server
to move.

Tim

From: Sahdev P Zala [mailto:spzala@us.ibm.com]
Sent: 09 October 2015 20:42
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)

Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Murano] py26 support in python-muranoclient

From: Clark Boylan <cboylan@sapwetik.org cboylan@sapwetik.org >
To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org

Date: 10/09/2015 02:00 PM
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Murano] py26 support in python-muranoclient

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015, at 10:32 AM, Vahid S Hashemian wrote:

Serg, Jeremy,

Thank you for your response, so the issue I ran into with my patch is
the
gate job failing on python26.
You can see it here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/232271/
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/232271/

Serg suggested that we add 2.6 support to tosca-parser, which is fine
with
us.
But I got a bit confused after reading Jeremy's response.
It seems to me that the support will be going away, but there is no
timeline (and therefore no near-term plan?)
So, I'm hoping Jeremy can advise whether he also recommends the same
thing, or not.
There is a timeline (though admittedly hard to find) at
https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-relmgt-stable-branch
https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-relmgt-stable-branchwhich says
Juno support would run through the end of November. Since Juno is the
last release to support python2.6 we will remove python2.6 support from
the test infrastructure at that time as well.

I personally probably wouldn't bother with extra work to support
python2.6, but that all depends on how much work it is and whether or
not you find value in it. Ultimately it is up to you, just know that the
Infrastructure team will stop hosting testing for python2.6 when Juno is
EOLed.

Hope this helps,
Clark

Thanks Clark and Jeremy! This is very helpful.

Serg, now knowing that CI testing is not going to continue in few weeks and
many other projects has dropped python 2.6 support or getting there, if
Murano decides the same that would be great. If Murano team decide to
continue the 2.6 support, we will need to enable support in tosca-parser as
well. As you mentioned it may not be a lot of work for us and we are totally
fine in making changes, but without automated tests it can be challenging in
future.

Thanks!
Sahdev Zala


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responded Oct 9, 2015 by Tim_Bell (16,440 points)   1 8 10
0 votes

On 2015-10-09 18:51:51 +0000 (+0000), Tim Bell wrote:
There is a need to distinguish between server side py26 support
which is generally under the control of the service provider and
py26 support on the client side. For a service provider to push
all of their hypervisors and service machines to RHEL 7 is under
their control but requiring all of their users to do the same is
much more difficult.
[...]

Agreed, this is why the master branches of clients/libraries opted
to continue testing with Python 2.6 throughout the supported
lifetime of the stable/juno branches. But much like for the service
providers and users, continuing to run older Linux distributions
(CentOS 6.x, Ubuntu 12.4.x) in our test infrastructure comes at a
significant cost and at some point we need to free up our limited
sysadmin resources to focus on better support for more recent distro
releases.

Once new patches to OpenStack projects are no longer actively tested
on these older platforms, we have to expect that the ability to run
new versions of the projects on them will quickly vanish. However,
users on those older distro releases can opt to continue using
whatever versions last supported them or perhaps fall back on the
versions provided by their distro's package manager.
--
Jeremy Stanley


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responded Oct 10, 2015 by Jeremy_Stanley (56,700 points)   3 5 7
0 votes

On 11 October 2015 at 01:17, Jeremy Stanley fungi@yuggoth.org wrote:
On 2015-10-09 18:51:51 +0000 (+0000), Tim Bell wrote:

There is a need to distinguish between server side py26 support
which is generally under the control of the service provider and
py26 support on the client side. For a service provider to push
all of their hypervisors and service machines to RHEL 7 is under
their control but requiring all of their users to do the same is
much more difficult.
[...]

Agreed, this is why the master branches of clients/libraries opted
to continue testing with Python 2.6 throughout the supported
lifetime of the stable/juno branches. But much like for the service
providers and users, continuing to run older Linux distributions
(CentOS 6.x, Ubuntu 12.4.x) in our test infrastructure comes at a
significant cost and at some point we need to free up our limited
sysadmin resources to focus on better support for more recent distro
releases.

Once new patches to OpenStack projects are no longer actively tested
on these older platforms, we have to expect that the ability to run
new versions of the projects on them will quickly vanish. However,
users on those older distro releases can opt to continue using
whatever versions last supported them or perhaps fall back on the
versions provided by their distro's package manager.

For pbr I'd actually value keeping 2.6 testing for a bit: because in
setup_requires we're not capped anywhere - and those folk that *are*
still using 2.6 shouldn't be broken by us - pbr is basically the last
thing that can sanely move.

I'd be happy with deadsnakes PPA on ubuntu, or a docker container or
whatever - just having the confidence that we haven't accidentally
broken anything until well past the point that the last release of a
higher level library is no longer accepting bug reports - that would
be the goal.

-Rob

--
Robert Collins rbtcollins@hp.com
Distinguished Technologist
HP Converged Cloud


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responded Oct 18, 2015 by Robert_Collins (27,200 points)   4 7 14
0 votes

On 10/18/2015 04:52 PM, Robert Collins wrote:
On 11 October 2015 at 01:17, Jeremy Stanley fungi@yuggoth.org wrote:

On 2015-10-09 18:51:51 +0000 (+0000), Tim Bell wrote:

There is a need to distinguish between server side py26 support
which is generally under the control of the service provider and
py26 support on the client side. For a service provider to push
all of their hypervisors and service machines to RHEL 7 is under
their control but requiring all of their users to do the same is
much more difficult.
[...]

Agreed, this is why the master branches of clients/libraries opted
to continue testing with Python 2.6 throughout the supported
lifetime of the stable/juno branches. But much like for the service
providers and users, continuing to run older Linux distributions
(CentOS 6.x, Ubuntu 12.4.x) in our test infrastructure comes at a
significant cost and at some point we need to free up our limited
sysadmin resources to focus on better support for more recent distro
releases.

Once new patches to OpenStack projects are no longer actively tested
on these older platforms, we have to expect that the ability to run
new versions of the projects on them will quickly vanish. However,
users on those older distro releases can opt to continue using
whatever versions last supported them or perhaps fall back on the
versions provided by their distro's package manager.

For pbr I'd actually value keeping 2.6 testing for a bit: because in
setup_requires we're not capped anywhere - and those folk that *are*
still using 2.6 shouldn't be broken by us - pbr is basically the last
thing that can sanely move.

I'd be happy with deadsnakes PPA on ubuntu, or a docker container or
whatever - just having the confidence that we haven't accidentally
broken anything until well past the point that the last release of a
higher level library is no longer accepting bug reports - that would
be the goal.

Maybe a non-voting job that adds the deadsnakes PPA and installs 2.6 in
the job setup and then runs pbr tests with it.

I say non-voting because we'd be introducing a direct-internet consuming
test, which increases the risk of failures - but given that the pbr team
is already careful (given the nature of the project) an informational
job should be good enough, no?


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responded Oct 18, 2015 by Monty_Taylor (22,780 points)   2 5 8
...